“If you carry, Always carry!” Gym shooting in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

There is an adage I’ve heard since entering the gun community. If you carry, always carry!

Today we have a tragic reminder of this fact.  Today, a deranged man, (George Sodini), who had social problems and a lack of female companionship decided to enact revenge (as he perceived it, against the entire female species).  He went to an L.A. Fitness gym, entered a room with a duffel bag and pulled out a rifle. Three people were murdered, and several others injured before the shooter shot himself.

This is cause for much reflection. You see, I myself, bring my firearm to the gym but tend to leave it locked up in the vehicle.  This is not an uncommon practice among those who CCW. Keeping their firearm in their vehicle or locker.  But is it the “right” action? Are we creating a self-imposed “gun free zone” with such actions?

I believe this man knew that no one in the gym, even those who carry most everywhere, would have likely not be carrying inside the gym.  A for this reason, and the fact that he knew there would mostly be women in the location, chose the gym as his rampaging grounds.

If you carry, carry everywhere! It is something that I am trying to learn and ingrain into my practices.

In fact, the last time I went to the gym I actually took my wife’s LCP in a pocket holster. It wasn’t the most comfortable situation, but it was workable.  Now I am all the more affirmed for the need to do so.  And for those who dislike mouseguns.  Maybe you need to reconsider whether you should be investing in a $200-$300 Keltec or Ruger mousegun for the gym.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/pennsylvania.gym.shooting/index.html

http://www.apnews.com/ap/db_7733/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=JrP4qApG

Lastly, if in such a situation, remember that thinking quickly and being aware of your surroundings can make a life or death difference.  For example, free weights are heavy flat lumps of metal. A large free weight disc would be large enough to provide protection to the critical center torso/head areas.  Thinking quickly, and being aware of your surroundings and any potential tools that can aid you can make the difference between surviving and not.  Whenever you enter any facility, be it a gym, restaurant, or grocery store. Take a quick survey, assess where the exits are, note potential objects of cover or concealment, and potential make shift weapons.  For example, most Walmarts sell compact bows and hunting arrows, some even sell rifles.  Knowing where the sporting goods section is located is always a good bit of knowledge.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

The perpetrator had been planning this event since last year. Such gun control policies as “waiting periods” would have been entirely ineffective at stopping such a rampage. His website stated that he originally was intended to conduct this attack after the elections. (He wanted to know who won.) And that he even brought the rifle in the duffel bag to the gym in December. But lost the nerve to commit the crime, only to do so over 6 months later.

I do wonder, does no one read such sites? And could Google create a algorithm that would help detect such.  As this is NOT the first murderer to have a website detailing their plans and attempts at such heinious crimes.  Now, I’m not advocating law enforcement and judicial action based just one a Google search result. But perhaps a system where such alerts would be passed off to a human pool who would check out the site and see if it’s merely somebody ranting. “Man I wanted to pummel the guy into the ground!” or “That guy was so annoying I wanted to shoot him!” versus  “It is 8:45pm: I chickened out! I brought the loaded guns, everything.” – January 6, 2009

***

UPDATE:  I thought I’d add some commentary on how would one act in such a situation, or how do I think I’d act in such a situation.  I shared a little of this in a comment. But it’s probably only fair to post it.

Gymnasiums pose a very difficult challenge in carrying. You’re attire is far from designed to do so. Furthermore, your working out on a physical level in which carrying would equate to added cumbersomeness and uncomfortability.

So what would or could someone do in a situation like this. Man comes in, turns off the lights and begins shooting.

The first thought that comes to mind is did I do what I should have upon entering?  Did I remain in condition yellow (alert and aware).  Did I make sure upon entering the room that I knew where all the exits were?

The lights turned off is both a disadvantage and an advantage.  While it adds to the chaos, it also provides some concealment for those fleeing.  I do not know if it was total darkness or not.  That said, the muzzleflash of the rifle would do two things.  First it would reveal the shooter’s position, enabling to avoid the shooter if at all possible.  Second, it would also likely blind the shooter or at least destroy his night vision. Further increasing concealment potential.

So what would I do. I really don’t know, I wasn’t there. Some options I think that I’d consider would be to lie on the ground prone. In hopes that the shooter assumed I was down. And if he approached and closed the distance between himself and I and/or I had a clear shot.  Take it.  This course of action would likely only add to my protection, and not the protection of everyone as a whole.

The second course of action I’d probably consider was to use the darkness and endeavor to make my way to an exit, and or flank the shooter. And if I could come upon him from an angle unaware, attempt to take him down.

One other thought that comes to mind when reading that there were free weights. If I were unarmed, and a free weight was within reach. I’d probably grab one and use it as a shield.  At least to protect my critical vital regions of torso/head area.

I’d like to say I was just smart enough to avoid the entire situation. Pick a gym that didn’t have any wackos. But truthfully, this is one of those cases in which you just can’t really forsee.   It could have easily been a swimming pool rather than an aerobic workout class. What then….I know some people swear by their Glocks tennifer coating.  But even I think that’s not a realistic option.  Everybody has to choose for themself what is a reasonable course of action, and an acceptable element of risk.

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Published in: on August 5, 2009 at 4:58 pm  Comments (35)  
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  1. You are the BIGGEST DUMB Idiot living on this planet

    Carry guns to the GYM ? HAHAHAHAHHAHA

    Carry guns to the Loo ?

    Carry guns while love making ( your wife may shoot you from the lack of real firepower)

    REAL men ALWAYS carry a Gun you FUKKING moron – it was given to you when you were born. down there –>

    I guess yours lacks firepower and accuracy

    SHAME ON YOU SHAME

    • The level of intellect in the anti gun movement amazes me to no end.
      At any rate, carry to the loo… Yes. Do you carry your wallet to the loo? When was the last time you needed your wallet while in the loo? However, it is always on your person is it not? So therefore it goes to the loo with you. It is the same with my gun. It is just always there. The difference is, if a nut decides to open fire on the establishment where I am using the loo and he enters the loo in an attempt to escape capture, find more victims, or any other reason, my gun could save my life whereas my wallet would not. What if you are in the loo and a drug deal happens to be going on just as you surprise them by coming out of the stall, and they don’t want any witnesses? What object or device commonly carried would help you in that situation? Wallet, cell phone, Ipod? None of the above, but guess what having your own gun could do for you. So tell me what would happen if you were in the loo unarmed at home when three armed men kicked in your front door & you were now the victim of a home invasion? I don’t think politely asking them to wait for you to wipe and get the combination to the gun safe, or worse yet run an errand to the gun shop is going to go over well with them.
      This all goes for any place and any situation including having a gun by the bed while sleeping or lovemaking.
      Well maybe not the gym, since… well… some whack job opening fire on an aerobics class??? Yeah right, that’ll never happen… You are perfectly safe there.
      Yeah, schools, churches, malls & gyms… There will never be shootings in any of those places. & your own home too… No one would ever think of invading a private residence with malicious intent.

  2. shekon@gmail.com
    Dear Shekon,

    Carry guns to the GYM? Why not? People carry cell phones and ipods to the gym!

    Carry guns to the Loo? Why not? People carry cell phones and ipods to the gym!

    Carry guns while love making? Well, no…I’m busy using the other gun then. But hey, my iPhone is usually on the charger set to silent during such times. So what’s the big deal having a sidearm in the bedroom. At least it won’t ring.

    😉

    “REAL men ALWAYS carry a Gun – it was given to you when you were born. down there”

    I have two children to attest to that fact sir. But I’d wager that gun would have been highly ineffective at stopping the gymnasium killer.

    But in all your statements above you did not provide a single argument or reasoning against my post. What is so wrong with having the means to protect yourself or your family?

    Criminals will always have guns and knives, just look at Great Britain. Police tend to arrive after these events are concluded. Even with the best response our officers are minutes away. These events are over in seconds.

    If it were your wife or loved one at that gymn, would you not want your wife to be both armed and trained to defend herself?

    I sure would…

  3. Well, being female but having been in the military, I can tell you NUGUN that in that situation all you would have accomplished is to shoot some extra people. You see, the murderer turned off the lights. He was shooting at random and if you had been armed and returned fire you most likely would have had to shoot at flash/sound — a recipe for more innocent victims = NOT A GOOD IDEA.
    So it would be much more prudent if that man hadn’t been able to buy his guns in the first place.

    • “Well, being female but having been in the military, I can tell you NUGUN that in that situation all you would have accomplished is to shoot some extra people. You see, the murderer turned off the lights.”

      Not necessarily so. You’re assuming that an armed individual is going to wantonly just unload bullets in any direction or merely at the noise of the rifle echoing off the walls. Hitting the people who run by…

      Yes, that would just be foolish. Where as many other options are much less so. And unlikely to result in any innoncent casualties.

      1. Lying prone, as if hit. When he approaches and is clearly visible one can take a precisely aimed shot.

      While such a strategy may not reduce other casualties by much. It will increase the armed citizen’s chance of survival.

      2. As you mentioned it was dark and he was shooting at random. The darkness works both ways. It conceals the shooter and those attempting to escape. Furthermore, the shooter is presenting his location with the flashes of his muzzle. This would allow a brave individual to attempt to flank and take down the active killer at close range. Thus preventing any further loss of life or injury.

      3. Recent studies have shown that when such killers find themselves confronted by resistance they often commit suicide and/or put up little resistance.

      All that said, you’re advocating a strategy that offers no solutions other than a random die roll – did the bullet hit or miss you. The result was three dead and 10 injured. The above strategy would result in far less casualties than merely trying to dodge bullets you cannot see.

      “He was shooting at random and if you had been armed and returned fire you most likely would have had to shoot at flash/sound — a recipe for more innocent victims = NOT A GOOD IDEA.”

      Really, have you studied up on cases of armed citizen defense. Seldom is another bystander hit or injured. And when they are, it’s usually because they were in such close proximity that if no action had been taken, then injured person would have been dead.

      “So it would be much more prudent if that man hadn’t been able to buy his guns in the first place.”

      Yes, if there was some magical way to keep weapons out of the hands of killers. It’d be great.

      But let’s be honest. Great Britain, much of Europe, and Japan have serious controls on guns. And even increasingly tight restrictions on knive. But they still have shootings. In fact, recently there have been knife attacks that have killed and wounded dozens.

      Are you going to ban every kitchen knife? Even if we banned firearms entirely; criminals would still possess firearms. They would steal them or simply buy them off the black market.

      And if we disarmed everyone, we’d merely be condemning the smaller and weaker to be harmed by the stronger. Often involving male on female crime. Disarmament is not the answer. While it may seem like a good idea, it’s merely a pipe dream. With far worse consequences than any utopian dream one could hope to achieve by banning weapons.

  4. You are a douchebag.

    • Thank you for your well reasoned argument and your willingness to engage in meaningful dialog.

      😉

  5. Of course you can carry to the gym, besides your gun(s), night vision gear and its batteries.

    • As I pointed out in my other reply. You have a better view of the shooter than he does of you under such a situation.

      You know his location. And he is quite blinded by the muzzle flash.

  6. You have it backwards. Our country has made a choice and this is the never ending consequence. We have chosen guns, a gun culture, and an NRA-driven agnda on the issue. The result: guns everywhere, with no regulations, little oversight, and an ever-extremist agenda towards more guns/less regulsations. The consequence: mass murder, never ending. The wrong reaction: more guns! The status quo, or an escalation as suggested, leaves us all vulnerable to random mass murder — hundreds of victims a year. Our spouses, our kids. Your comment would cause more gun murder. Think real hard. Real real hard. really try to use your brain. Will more guns make it better or worse? Can we trust you with your guns? How do we know your not the next nut guy? Your website makes you look like one. If you are sane, ok fine, how about the other 200 million adults in the country? How can our country be so stupid as to fall for the NRA agenda. More guns more often is about as dumb a reaction as can be made to this incident.

    • “You have it backwards. Our country has made a choice and this is the never ending consequence.”

      Funny, it’s a consequence that many nations in Europe and elsewhere that made the opposite choice seem to be having too. The fact that in many places guns are totally banned. Resulting in only the criminals having guns.

      Maybe it’s just a consequence of human nature.

      Let’s not forget how many died Europe, Russia, and Asia because of disarmament in the past century.

      “We have chosen guns, a gun culture, and an NRA-driven agnda on the issue.”

      Do you realize that the NRA is not some monstrous entity, nor even the lobbying arm of the gun manufacturers.

      Rather, it is one of the largest grassroots organizations made up of millions of “people”. Yes, demonizing it and trying to make it look like some big entity run by a few people in back rooms makes it easy to dismiss. But it’s total balogne.

      “The result: guns everywhere, with no regulations, little oversight, and an ever-extremist agenda towards more guns/less regulsations.”

      Um, we have over 20,000 gun control laws. Lack of laws are not the problem. A much bigger problem is the fact that felons are repeatedly caught with firearms and deadly weapons and put back on the streets. In many cases not even being prosecuted for weapon possession. If our government is not going to enforce the most fundamental gun control law “convicted criminals and felons are not allowed to possess weapons”; than how will any other law work.

      The end result is that most gun laws only affect those that will never do anything wrong. In fact criminals cannot even be convicted of failure to register their guns in places like Chicago which requires such registration. It’s viewed as a violation of their 5th amendment rights and self-incrimination.

      “The consequence: mass murder, never ending. The wrong reaction: more guns!”

      Weird, it’s a consequence right? Let’s look at Britain, Germany, Japan and Australia. All have extremely strict gun control laws equating to near total bans. But they still have mass murders.

      Meanwhile, look at which states have the right to carry laws and less gun control restrictions. Those states tend to have lower crime and murder rates per capita. Y

      “The status quo, or an escalation as suggested, leaves us all vulnerable to random mass murder”

      Your understanding of mass murder is very limited. And your solution would do little to prevent it. Where as, an armed and free people greatly impedes mass murder. Perhaps you should spend some time studying history. The disarmament in Europe, Russia and Asia during the last century led to the mass-murder of millions. Not dozens.

      Let’s look and compare. Which is worse?

      12 dead

      12,000,000 dead

      I’m of the opinion 12 million dead is far worse than a dozen.

      “Your comment would cause more gun murder. Think real hard.”

      No, it would cause less. And those deaths would be the one’s perpetrating murder.

      “Real real hard. really try to use your brain.”
      I have, have you?

      “Will more guns make it better or worse? Can we trust you with your guns? How do we know your not the next nut guy?”

      1. It makes it no worse.
      2. Can we trust you with your car? Your knife?
      3. If I was the next nut, do you think a ban on guns would really stop anyone? Look at Iraq. More soldiers have died from improvised explosives than probably any other cause. One does not need guns to cause massacres.

      “Your website makes you look like one.”
      Oh gee…he has a website on guns. Therefore since I am fearful, I assume anything related to guns is bad. Anyone with a gun is crazy, because they have a gun, and having a gun is my definition of crazy.

      Come on…let’s be a little more judicial than that.

      “how about the other 200 million adults in the country?”

      I’d wager that most are sane. In fact, a lot of those 200 million already own guns.

      “How can our country be so stupid as to fall for the NRA agenda.”

      Um, you do realize that your so called NRA agenda is merely the agenda of millions of Americans who believe that freedom is better than safety, because there is no safety without freedom.

      “More guns more often is about as dumb a reaction as can be made to this incident.”

      You’re right. Let’s take away the guns of every police officer. Clearly, more guns is a dumb idea. Police officers shouldn’t have guns because bringing more guns into a situation like that would just be stupid.

    • Again I will quote the following once written by an attorney I know:

      “Only a dedicated extremist gun-hater can ignore the reality that gun bans only affect the law-abiding, by disarming them, making them vulnerable, and getting them killed. An angry loner can start shooting up any public place, but it takes the willing help of the anti-gun crowd to enable him to keep killing without interference. Their sanctimonious anti-gun policies and signs and “gun free zones” aid and abet his killing. They have blood on their hands, but they’ll never acknowledge it.”

  7. Carrying a gun to the gym wouldn’t have prevented anything I’m convinced. It’s unlikely you’re alert all the time, have the gun loaded and within reach with every step you take in your life. And if everyone starts taking guns to the gym, I bet there’ll be many more accidents and fights that end up as shootings rather than fist fights, so rather than preventing anything, it actually makes things worse.

    When I was younger, I regularly carried a knife with me, and have been in situations where I considered using it. In hindsight I was just more ready to get into a fight because I felt I had an ‘edge’. It’s a pretty ff-ed up society where everyone is always on the lookout for a fight and ready to use deadly force whenever a situation occurs.

    • “Carrying a gun to the gym wouldn’t have prevented anything I’m convinced. It’s unlikely you’re alert all the time, have the gun loaded and within reach with every step you take in your life.”

      A large part of the training for carrying a concealed weapon focuses on being alert. Always being in condition yellow, aware of your surroundings and things going on. While also avoiding areas that are more likely to pose a problem.

      Perhaps you should look into the Keltec P3AT and Ruger LCP. These two very diminutive pistols can help facilitate carrying a firearm in almost any situation. (With perhaps the exception of water activities.) It’s not about keeping in reach, rather it’s about keeping it on you.

      😉

      “And if everyone starts taking guns to the gym, I bet there’ll be many more accidents and fights that end up as shootings rather than fist fights, so rather than preventing anything, it actually makes things worse.”

      Actually, many people who transition to carrying personal firearms find that they become less aggressive. They often realize that the situation can get beyond egos, and therefore knowing that it could result in death and not just some bruises. They avoid confrontation.

      As the saying goes, “An armed society is a polite society.”

      “When I was younger, I regularly carried a knife with me, and have been in situations where I considered using it. In hindsight I was just more ready to get into a fight because I felt I had an ‘edge’.”

      Well maybe that’s a problem in your personality or character. I have always sought to avoid confrontation.

      If your ego was that important, than it’s probably wise not to carry a weapon.

      “It’s a pretty ff-ed up society where everyone is always on the lookout for a fight and ready to use deadly force whenever a situation occurs.”

      Your making assumptions that people are out looking for a fight, and ready to use deadly force at the first opportunity. Maybe if someone is seeking a rush or glory, that might be the case.

      But a large part of carrying to protect oneself includes be wise, and avoiding places of trouble if one is able. It is not for the fool to carry. But the wise man…

  8. “But let’s be honest. Great Britain, much of Europe, and Japan have serious controls on guns. And even increasingly tight restrictions on knive. But they still have shootings.”

    I’m from Europe (The Netherlands) originally, and yeah, there are shootings. A few a year, and they typically make the national front page, even those who are seemingly amongst criminals. The amount of violence in society is incomparable to that in the US.

    FWIW, I’m not completely against gun ownership per se, but I do believe that relaxing rules instead of tightening them will only make things worse.

    • Greetings Eelco,

      “I’m from Europe (The Netherlands) originally, and yeah, there are shootings. A few a year, and they typically make the national front page, even those who are seemingly amongst criminals. The amount of violence in society is incomparable to that in the US.”

      A couple of thoughts I have on this. Switzerland has a high firearm ownership. But far less crime and shootings than America.

      In fact, the American cities with the most stringent gun control and total handgun bans are the ones that are most dangerous. Chicago, Washington D.C.

      The amount of violence in American society is pretty high. But there are many who would argue that such has more to due with our drug situation than firearm ownership. As the statistics show those regions and cities with higher firearm ownership tend to have less violent crime.

      “FWIW, I’m not completely against gun ownership per se, but I do believe that relaxing rules instead of tightening them will only make things worse.”

      Our problem really lies more with our court system. Violent offenders are repeatedly released back on the streets.

      The rap sheets (criminal records) of recent shooters of Philadelphia area law enforcement showed an uncanny trend.

      Most of the shooters had pages of criminal history. Nearly all of them had prior arrests as prohibited persons (convicted criminals and felons who are by law not allowed to possess a firearm). In many cases the charges are not even prosecuted.

      There lies far more of our crime problem than the firearms. If our judges and prosecutors kept our criminals locked up, we’d have less crime. And less people inclined to crime. The vast majority of crime in America is perpetrated by criminals on bail, parole, or early release.

      I do agree that America has a crime problem. But it’s not the firearms that are perpetuating that problem. And for many Americans, owning a firearm is really their best option for keeping their family safe.

      Many who have called 9-1-1 have discovered that it was not the surety they had long believed. I myself, being one of those. Who when he called 9-1-1 during an incident in progress was told “It’s New Haven, what do you expect us to do about it!”

      – N.U.G.U.N.

      PS – Thank you for your comment and for engaging in reasonable and rational dialogue. And especially for keeping an open mind.

      🙂

  9. It looks like CNN has brought you many a visitor willing to discuss this issue… NOT! Just goes to show what type of people rely on CNN for their news.

    I’m not sure what to do in the gym. I certainly don’t want to be carrying while I’m working out. But more power to the people that do.

    Of course, if the guy had not had access to a rifle, he could have done just as much damage with a pipe bomb, perhaps more. Pipe bombs are easy and inexpensive to make.

  10. […] seems to have attracted some commenters through links from CNN and some other major sites.  I’m honestly not all that interested in […]

  11. Very nicely put, Mr. NUGUN! By refusing to engage in the same irrelevant ad hominem attacks that so many of your detractors are using, I’m sure you have managed to convince quite a few readers.

  12. “I do agree that America has a crime problem. But it’s not the firearms that are perpetuating that problem. And for many Americans, owning a firearm is really their best option for keeping their family safe.”

    I agree that just blaming fire arms is a bit simplistic, and comparing cultures is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Frankly, I’m not completely sure what my position is on how gun ownership should be regulated, there’s just a lot of things to weigh in. One thing is for sure: a lot of people who shouldn’t be carrying firearms nevertheless are, but that’s true – like you pointed out – even in countries where regulation is very strict.

    FWIW, I admire the fact that Americans are more ready to stand up for themselves. In Holland I’ve never scared away from confronting people with behavior I thought was wrong, and I still can’t believe how many times people told me I was crazy: “you could’ve ended up with a knife in your back!’. There are many things to like in Holland, but cowardice and over-reliance on the government aren’t amongst them. I’m not sure where that cultural difference comes from, because historically we actually have a good record standing up for our rights, and in the international political arena, Dutch politicians certainly aren’t afraid to take a stance, but the fact that self defense is often penalized in Holland probably is one of the causes. And defending yourself with bare hands against someone with a weapon just isn’t like the movies show you.

    “PS – Thank you for your comment and for engaging in reasonable and rational dialogue. And especially for keeping an open mind.”

    Sure thing. We can do without zealots of any side of debates. Good luck with that tidal wave of comments 🙂

  13. Wow N.U.G.U.N. you’ve gotten popular fast, and it appears to be with the anti-gun crowd.

    I’m not going to speak on whether somebody having a gun at the gym would have improved the situation. There were approximately 100 people in that gym according to the stories I’ve read and not all of them were in the dance room Mr. Chickencrap shot up. Likewise the stories I’ve read imply he killed the lights only to that room hence the rest of the place would have been lit up yet. If he stood i the doorway he’d be a viable target from outside the room or inside (light from behind him would have outlined him). But that’s all situation based.

    I can tell you this. There was no benefit from not having guns there. Had somebody been armed there is a chance they could have stopped him. Since everybody there was unarmed there was no chance of stopping him.

    One thing is for certain though, stricter gun control laws would not have stopped this. This man was willing to kill multiple people he’s never met and hence would have no worries about breaking any gun control laws to obtain his means of murder. Looser laws, which anti-gunners claim cause these situations, wouldn’t have changed this situation in the slightest and hence are a non-issue here. Furthermore with the lights off and some cheap night-vision equipment he could have been equally deadly with knives as well. He was a determined killer and therefore can not be deterred, only stopped early.

    • What’s really interesting is how long this guy had premeditated this. No waiting period would have helped.

      He had actually intended to do it last year. Shortly after the elections were over (cause he wanted to know who won).

      He actually brought the rifle in but as he put it, chickened out. Over half a year later he enacted his rampage.

    • “I can tell you this. There was no benefit from not having guns there. Had somebody been armed there is a chance they could have stopped him. Since everybody there was unarmed there was no chance of stopping him.”

      wait… are we talking about VA Tech?…..

      I agree… same points… just as tragic.

  14. NUGUN,

    Thanks for taking the time and Flack for posting this and being hit by CNN and the Nany Society socialists.

    You are 100% on the right track. No one knows the exact lighting and other circumstances of the situation. Maybe an armed citizen could have heped.

  15. This is a case where he picked a group- women that was in a atate of dress that disallowed armed carry. It could have been possible to have a small gun in a gym bag next to you with your water and phone,ipod etc. But most people try to go light when exercising and depend that most of their fellow people are not going to attack them. Robbery is the most common reason for an attack and gym clothes do not have their wallets on them. So robbery is less likely at a gym.

    Regrettably there is little to do to stop a suicidal person who wants to get revenge on random people. In this case a man that could not attract women because he was so creepy.

    However if this becomes more common, people will start to carry smaller guns in a bag next to them and just adjust their habits.

  16. I would like to point out to everyone that England has seen a 40% rise in gun violence since the ban and Brits are up in arms (well not exactly since they have none) over the situation. Many feel like we do, that they have a right to defend themselves and the government tricked them into giving up their means. Links? Proof? Just google it. It’s not hard to do the research yourself and become informed about all the issues of guns.

    This is a tragedy for the American people but it most certainly is not an excuse to disarm. Once you erode the 2nd Amendment (which protects the others) you will lose your other protections of your rights.

  17. .
    Many of the same arguments could be made against bringing a gun to church services. Yet one woman did, and saved countless lives.

    The angry, deficient, hungry, and insane walk amongst us, and always will: no amount of hand wringing will ever change that. The cops can’t be everywhere. Unfortunately, the number of street cops per capita is steadily diminishing in this economic crisis. Self-defense has always been an important capability of a free man or woman. In these unsettled times, the ability to defend oneself is more important then ever.

    Thanks for your post NUGUN.

    CF
    .

  18. Gun bans don’t work. There always has been and always WILL be violence in our society. There are bad people out there; people who are either too lazy, stupid or mentally disabled to make an honest living and instead choose to prey on those who do. Guns are the great equalizer. They allow an 87 year old to be just as powerful and defend herself against a 6’4″ 200 lb 18 year old.

    Gun bans don’t work. Look at Mexico. Since 1968, they have effectively had a gun ban in place that bans pretty much everything except .22LR and shotguns for farmers in rural areas (and they need a difficult to obtain license). Is Mexico free of gun violence? Hardly! The common person is a victim, controlled by both the militaristic government and the well-armed drug lords.

  19. Wow, NUGUN, I’m so proud. My little blogger is growing up, ha! But seriously your’ve attracted some misinformed folks out there.

    It’s funny how people reaction to these things are so gross only afterwards. If they really had strong opinions they’d continue to invest time and money in banning guns. It just shows the shallowness of their opinions.

    As for carry in the Gym, you well know I don’t mind a unattended gun in a secure area like a trunk of a car or locked locker. That’s one option. Also I’ve taken to carrying a light everywhere I go, so that would make targeting the bad guy a lot easier.

    Now I’m not saying shooting someone is really the answer but having a society willing to respond with force will keep these guys from seeking the fame that they want by going on a killing spree. I can only think the very actions this COWARD carried out was only to draw interest to him so he will be remembered.

    Furthermore, this case highlights how awful the media can perpetuate these killings with media coverage. I doubt anyone can even name the lives of the men that died in IRAQ today.

    AJ

  20. Great Blog…I fail to understand given what we know about history and society how ANYONE can agree with banning weapons for protection of yourself and others.
    Criminals will and always have found a way to get guns. Banned or not. Hell they even make thier own in prison…go figure.
    Continue the great work here helping to making people aware.

  21. Hey NUGUN,

    Great blog, I particularly appreciate the way you dealt with the earliest comments’ unreasoned bias. Especially 1, 3 and 5.

    I am also struck by how correct the pod casters are at the GRRN about the types of “arguments” used by the anti-gun movement. All other assumptions aside, one stereotype I am guilty of is the idea that higher education often leads to liberalism, and having attended a fairly liberal institution I would have assumed a more eloquent anti-gun facade.

    In any case, great job and keep up the great blogging!

  22. My heartfelt condolences to all those touched by this tradegy. This is just one more reason why everyone should learn to safely carry and use a firearm or if uncomfortable with a firearm, then at minimum have martial arts training.
    This was a law abiding citizen whose mental defect went undiagnosed up to this point. Some would use this as fuel for a gun ban, but anyone with a brain in their head knows that would only take the ability to protect ones self from those who are not willing to break the law.
    Anyone who is willing to break the law against murder would certainly also ignore any law against acquiring a firearm.
    The best thing any sane rational person can do is arm oneself after acquiring the proper training to safely carry and use said sidearm, and then carry everywhere.

    Allow me to quote an aquaintance of mine. He is an educated man who earns his living as a practicing attorney. If you are against guns in the USA, read on and learn:
    “Of course there’s a correlation between places where everyone would think you’re nuts to bring a weapon, and the probability of everyone there being unarmed, and the relative likelihood that a deranged loser will find it an attractive target.

    We understand that this is the reason for crazy people attacking churches, schools, and gun-free workplaces. Because if all the “normal” people tell you that you’re in no danger at church, and you’d be paranoid to wear a gun to a wedding, then a wedding is a prime target. Even a crazy person has enough sense to know that he wants a killing zone where he’s the only person with a gun, that’s why loonies don’t shoot up gun shops, gun shows, or police stations.

    Pedophiles try to find places with unattended children. Muggers look for distracted people in alleys. Rapists look for women traveling alone. And mass shooters look for gun-free zones.

    Only a dedicated extremist gun-hater can ignore the reality that gun bans only affect the law-abiding, by disarming them, making them vulnerable, and getting them killed. An angry loner can start shooting up any public place, but it takes the willing help of the anti-gun crowd to enable him to keep killing without interference. Their sanctimonious anti-gun policies and “gun free zones” aid and abet his killing. They have blood on their hands, but they’ll never acknowledge it.”

  23. Hey NUGUN,
    Just wanted to say thanks for the great blog post. It really got me thinking about different aspects of conceal carry. I appreciate your willingness to engage in intelligent and reasonable, factual debate rather than stooping down to petty insults and irrational, emotional rants. My wife and I both have our permits and exercise the right to carry a firearm in protection of our family. We both agree that we want at least a fighting chance if we are ever placed in a situation such as the one mentioned in your post. We, as well as most of our neighbors realize the importance of protecting ourselves and each other as a community. Thanks and keep it up!

    –Cornmastah

  24. And it looks like now you’ve arrived! Aren’t hate mail and completely emotional but logically unfounded arguments fun?! LOL!

    Yeah, I carry at the gym. I carry when I jog around my neighborhood. And to answer “andrea” who was in the military, and knows better… It’s called a weapon mounted light. LOL. See, I can SEE what my muzzle covers that way.

    For now, I say let’s give thanks that this loser’s marksmanship skills were about on par as his skills with the ladies, and that nobody else was hurt.

    • “It’s called a weapon mounted light. LOL. See, I can SEE what my muzzle covers that way.”

      Very true Eric. I have Streamlight TLR-1’s on 2 of my Sigs. Even when pointed at the corner of a wall they’re bright enough to light up my entire bedroom.


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