Never disarm yourself -ever!!! (reading this may save your life)

A tragic incident if all the facts read true, and I am afraid they probably do.

A West Point graduate, and concealed carry holder gunned down by police gone wild.  There were several mistakes made here.

1. Overreaction by the store.  This was an area Eric could do nothing about. You can thank the Brady campaign for this sort of hysteria.

2. Failure to depart. If asked to leave by a private establishment. Do so, do so quickly. Do not argue rights.  Simply depart. You have been asked to leave private property – do so.  After having done so, contact the management and make your complain. Do not make your complaint at the moment of issue.

3. Police – we are trained to give orders. You are to obey. If we give you conflicting orders. Oh well…we’ll shoot your arse.  You have a several officers, each with their own opinion of what the individual in question should do.

“Get on the ground!”

“Drop your weapon!”

“Keep your hands up!”

In most cases your pistol will be holstered, and it should be.  What is the best action to do in such a situation?  Well, unless you’re ready to gun sling with the professional hired guns (police). You best co-operate in a clear manner.

a. If for whatever reason you’re gun is in hand. Drop it. Do not worry if it will go bang when it hits the ground. Nearly all modern weapons are sufficiently drop safe.  If it turns out yours is not. That’s a matter for a later pursuit in the courts with the manufacturer and NOT for this moment.

b. Put your hand on your head, interlock your fingers. This is a sign of submission. And provides comfort to the police, placating their fear that you might attempt a quick combative response.

c. Get down on your knees.This removes your ability to run. Providing assurance to the officers at hand that you are being compliant. This meets the requirement of being on the ground. It may not prevent them from slamming your face in the cement for the sheer sake of “we can do that – we’re the cops”.   In fact, you might want to take the time to gently lay your head down on the ground. Take some deep breaths so that you’ve got some reserve oxygen just in case that over-weight cop sits on your back to restrain you.

d. If you have a friend/loved one/etc. They are sure to be disturbed by this process.  Simply tell them to stay calm. Good advice for partners is to have it already established that under such a situation, the other will call 9-1-1 and attempt to get a hold of the authorities to explain the misunderstanding and to have a call come down from higher up to ease down.  The more calm and rational this is done, the more likely it is to work.




With your hands on your head and your knees on the ground.  Assure the police “I am Co-operating. Surrendering my sidearm. Please remove with holster.”

This tragedy should NEVER have occurred. But as we increasingly move to a police state and the ignoring of civil liberties. Such incidents will increase in number unless we train ourselves to make these situations as pacific as possible.

Now, I am sure many many readers will object to these instructions. Exclaim how we shouldn’t have to do such things. I absolutely agree. But remember cops, shoot first, conceal later – it’s better to be judged by 12, than shot to death by cops.

Lastly, enough with these police review boards.  Seriously, us citizens have no faith in them.  I can only recall one recent case in which an officer was not abdicated by his fellow officers. And that was the MARTA shooting. And I believe that was ONLY because multiple videos were captured and released to the public. Had those videos been detained by officers.  I believe that case would have turned out differently.

Nor do I think police should be allowed to collect video of incidents they are directly involved in. Because it is increasingly resulting in “no information could be recovered” . Hmmm…we’re not stupid.

I am friend with a number of former and/or law enforcement officers. They have a tough job made impossible by a crappy judicial system.  They’ve also been burned, so they protect their own.

But to all law enforcement. Realize so many of the panels have been completely one-sided. That the citizens have lost faith in them.  The result, we’re losing faith in your testimony.

Years ago, if I was on a jury and the police said “He resisted.” I’d have given the police the benefit of the doubt and accepted their word.  Now, if 4 police officers declared that the man resisted and was shot.  If that man did not have a prior record, was a concealed carry permit holder, or a Boy Scout, or any other decent commendation.  I am probably not going to accept your word. You’re going to need to provide evidence.

Please officers, do not give up your honor.  If you tell me, that the information you received in the 9-1-1 call created a different perception from the actual situation. And that there is so little time to know how to react, that you have a responsibility to come home to your family as well.  When the individual reached for his gun you had to assume the worst in such little time.

That statement, would likely make me demand re-training, some desk time, maybe an early retirement. But I would accept the “fog of war”. Now, not all jurors will think thus so. But it’d be better to have people like me still think that way so as to influence the rest of the jurors.

Mistakes were made on both sides. Now someone is dead. Both sides need to evaluate their trained responses (police and concealed carriers).  Off duty cops have died from this same sort of situation.

My condolences to the family and to the officers involved.


Published in: on September 19, 2010 at 8:07 pm  Comments (3)  
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  1. […] Never disarm yourself -ever!!! (reading this may save your life) « N.U.G.U.N. – New User of GUNs A West Point graduate, and concealed carry holder gunned down by police gone wild. There were several mistakes made here. (tags: guns concealedcarry) […]

  2. Jason,

    I actually left a comment relevent to this on your post about Sebastion chiming in on this case. I appreciate the invitation. There are many things in this post that are good advice. I would of course take exception with some of the things you have presented here, but the one thing I would say is(and I addressed it at the other post), not only DO NOT REACH FOR YOUR FIREARM, DO NOT REACH FOR ANYTHING UNLESS AND UNTIL TOLD TO DO SO. Not your wallet, not your cell phone, not your keys.

    I addressed this at the other post, but officers are trained to watch for “furtive movement” if they think or know you are armed and don’t yet know that you are a “good guy” any movement not so directed, can be perceived as going for a weapon, especially in a situation in which you are known to be or thought to be armed. If you come up with something in your hand it may be perceived as a weapon and you may be shot.

    I would like to offer a little explanation as to why this is and make a defense that the police are not out to shoot people, but in fact dread the thought, but I have a tendency to be a little long-winded because I like to insure that I communicating my thoughts as clearly as possible so I will comment again on this, but it is 0227 and I have court in the morning.

  3. Good point on not reaching for anything. Pretty much, I advise going to a surrender position with hands on one’s head.

    As for the number of shots. It’s pretty much my understanding that a green recruit in the army will usually unload their entire magazine when first fired upon. Police are likely to unload an entire magazine or all shoot at once when they believe there is a threat.

    One problem I find is 911 operators who are poorly trained and essentially trained to be anti-gun. There is a video that was on youtube of a shop owner detaining a burgler. The criminal escaped, and the shop keeper’s life was put in jeopardy because the 911 operator was more concerned that the shop keeper had a gun than the fact that a criminal was involved.

    I think the training for 911 operators is sub-par and gets people killed. Of course, the one time I called 911 for an event in progress, the operator responded with “It’s New Haven, whad’ya expect us to do about it.” After the incident ended, with no one harmed thankfully. The gas station clerk called 911 and three cruisers showed up. To take a report.


    Cops have a lot of crap to deal with. They risk their lives bagging criminals only to see DA’s & judges set them free. As you said elsewhere, they want to go home at night to their family. I don’t blame them.

    I too want to go home to my family. I think improved training for all involved would help ensure that.

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